Vikash: Amazing. Can you give us a quick intro about the company and

David Fallarme: Sure. So it's basically think of it as HubSpot for restaurants. So HubSpot, the problem that they're solving is there's all these companies that are putting together this duct tape system of WordPress, MailChimp, Google Sheets, different sales tools. You want to bring that all under one roof just so it's easier for yourself to manage.

Sales and marketing are looking at the same dashboards and all that kind of stuff. Restaurants have that same problem, but it's actually worse because restaurant owners typically are not sophisticated SaaS buyers like marketing and sales people are. So it's a real pain for them to have to stitch together Wix, Weebly, MailChimp, SMS Marketing, then like DoorDash, Grubhub, Uber Eats.

It's just a huge pain from a restaurant owner's perspective, so we want to take what HubSpot has done. That model of bringing everything under one roof in house, really simplifying it for the restaurant owner and then helping them increase their sales. So there's a lot of good stuff happening. I'm going to refine that pitch as I get embedded in the team more and more, but that hopefully gives you an overview of what we're working on.

Vikash: Amazing. Amazing. I usually like to start the podcast with a fun question. So what's a hot marketing take that you have that you can share with us? I know there's a bunch I've seen.

David Fallarme: Yeah, I got a bunch, man. Yeah, the one that I like the most is I think hiring A players is overrated. So everybody always says, oh, you should hire A players. You should make sure that you don't hire B players. You know, essentially everybody read the Steve Jobs bio, and he said something like, oh, hire only A players.

Which I think is like okay advice if you're Apple. But for the vast majority of startup teams, it's very hard to actually hire A players, and you'll obsess over what an A player even means internally. What I think is far more important is building a system that turns B players into A players, and that's very possible.

Because what can, the, what I've seen happen several times, and have lived it, is you get a bunch of A players, but the system you put them in is bad. The whole system will fail and you wasted a bunch of time doing it. So, in summary, I think hiring A players is good, but it's the most important thing that you should be focused on as a leader, especially in a startup, is what is the system to turn B players into A players?

What is the overall structure to make sure everybody can succeed?

Vikash: I love that. Probably the biggest challenge with trying to hire a players, at least for me personally if I think about it is like, what's your definition of any player?

David Fallarme: Yeah, everybody has their own damn thing and it doesn't make any sense. Like, and you feel this, especially in the sales world, like, yeah, let me just get the best salesperson. Now you're dependent on this one person. They may not be a good teacher and may not pass on their learnings to the rest of the team and onboarding.

So the system is more important than the individual.

Vikash: Because you've, you were previously at you know, a bunch of companies you were also doing. Working as a fractional marketer and all this stuff based on your experience and from what you've seen so far what do you think are some of the, you know, bigger mistakes, you know, that a lot of marketing teams do, and they probably aren't realizing it, right?

David Fallarme: I would say that the main mistake that everybody makes is especially from a marketing perspective is like just committing to things right away. Without understanding whether it deserves the commitment or the investment put another way. I think companies don't think in terms of experiments enough.

You just think in terms of campaigns. It's like, oh, we should do this thing. And then there's no feedback loop to judge whether that thing was actually useful or whether you should do it again. What ends up happening is you just keep stacking campaigns and programs on top of each other. And the next thing you know, you have this unwieldy machine.

You don't know what's working or what doesn't. You view them all equally and there's no prioritization. So I think it's important to be rigorous whenever you launch something as a marketing team. Or even as a single person marketing or as even as a consultant, think of things in terms of experiments, things, things have learning loops and feedback cycles because especially at that series A to B stage that I love working on, it's about finding what are the things that you can create to turn into repeatable engines of growth as opposed to one time spikes.

So thinking in terms of experiments versus campaigns, I think is a powerful thing that a lot of marketing teams can switch their minds and on and see a lot of progress as a result.

Vikash: What is the general, timeframe that you usually look at when you think of experiments? 

David Fallarme: Have to understand the dynamics of the channel. So, you can't do like an SEO experiment and expect it to be over in two weeks. So, it depends on the dynamics of the channel. So, that does require some expertise and domain expertise, depending on what you're trying to test. That being said, you can always have leading indicators of whether something is worth it or not.

At the very least, do that. Maybe you don't know that publishing 40 blog posts is going to lead to revenue in month one. But you're going to see leading indicators in a couple of weeks, right? Like, things start to get indexed, you start to rank for some things, long tail things. So Even just doing that thought process upfront in terms of what are we trying to learn upon which what time frame what investment size is actually necessary to make this work and then bringing in consultants bringing in other subject matter experts to help stress test your hypothesis in your experiment design All of that like nobody does that and so just even putting that process together is gonna allow you to have much more conviction when it's time to scale up.

Vikash: It's also one of the things that I've been personally trying to, do internally like even before we start a campaign like, what's the objective? If, if we know, okay, hey, we want to achieve this. Yes, for sure. Right. But how do we know that we are heading in the right direction before, like, I don't want to know that we are we are failing that say two months down the line.

Right. So trying to figure out that leading indicators early on and having that written, I think makes a lot of sense.

David Fallarme: Yeah, I will add a nuance though and in some things you shouldn't It's going to sound like I'm contradicting myself, but I promise I'm not. Some things you shouldn't think of as experiments. Like if they're strategically important, you should just commit and do it. So for example, if your target audience You know, for a fact, they listen to podcasts, podcasts are notoriously difficult to attribute and understand whether they're working or not.

But if you know, because you've trained your intuition on talking to real customers and you understand the target market, they listen to podcasts, just like go all in and just close your eyes and like, this is a thing that will have an impact because we know this is the behavior of our customer. So in that case, don't do an experiment.

So some things are so strategically important based on your customer knowledge that you shouldn't hedge and you shouldn't wait until you see a return easier said than done. But as long as you understand your target market To have the highest possible degree that you can improve your confidence.

That's the right thing to do. Not everything has to be an experiment

Vikash: Probably the hardest part is prioritizing, right? There's like a whole bunch of things that you can do. SEM, SEO, events. Social, all sorts of stuff. And while you're trying to do experiments how do you think about prioritization?

David Fallarme: Yeah, it's so hard so hard. So a couple of startups ago a couple of companies ago. I Was leading marketing and then you know, like every marketer We all follow a bunch of people or subscribe to things with the podcast watch YouTube Then, you know, I read the blog post that was like how we increase traffic by 10, 000 percent using blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, oh my God, I will just follow this medium post step by step because this person laid it out. Then I'll become the best marketer in the world. I'll get promoted and all this kind of stuff. Right? So I did all this stuff in the post, like it didn't work. Then I heard some, some like presentation on YouTube.

This guy giving a conference talk, how to grow and scale by, you know, three X in six months. Oh my God, he's laying out the thing. So I just copied that, but it didn't work again. So I'm like, wait, something is wrong here. These people are laying out the things. It makes sense. But when I copy it word for word, it doesn't happen in my company the same way.

And so I realized that there's a lot of good best practices out there, but you shouldn't get sucked into them. Like treat them as ideas. Treat them as like, instead of a playbook, think of it as ideas for your cookbook. So you got to think about what is the ingredients you have in your company? What is the, are you making Indian food and making Italian food?

Are you making Japanese food? So you got to identify in terms of the cuisine, like what is the go to market for your company? Are you a sales led motion because your ACV is, let's call it 50 K and up. Are you a marketing led motion? Let's call that 5K to 50 K. Are you a product led motion? And that's called that sub 5k.

I'm making crazy generalizations here, but just to illustrate the point. So which of those go to markets does your company have as its primary way to grow? Then from there, you kind of just look at what companies ahead of you have done. So you're not the first sales led company in the world. You're not the first marketing led this other people have done it.

So you don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Just look at what those companies did and basically copy their model. Cause they faced this exact same problem and they solved it. If they've scaled to like a hundred million dollars. Then like, forget about doing things from first principles. A lot of the time, just copy what they did.

Once you get to that scale, then you can invent your own thing. So think about your go to market, look at the archetypes for those go to market companies, and then essentially execute their playbook. And because they're typically public companies, they're highly visible. It's very easy to reverse engineer what you did.

So practically speaking, if you are a sales led outbound company, you should be looking at what Salesforce did, you know, big companies like that. Not what Zoom is doing, like. Salesforce didn't grow by having like a viral product. And similarly zoom didn't grow in the early days by, you know, going door to door and like presenting at events the way that they invested in their product.

So. you've got to start from the go to market, identify who your archetype is. That's one way you can help the prioritization of all the best practices you see online and identify which ones are going to work for you. Still going to be some experimentation involved, but at least you've narrowed it down now from this like 1000 list of best practices down to like the 10 you should try and experiment.

Vikash: On that topic, right? Because you're talking about prioritization and experiments when do you usually say no to? Might sound like a really good idea, right? It might, you might maybe the person bringing the idea to you has a good reason why it might fit your GTM motion.

But if you're already working on a bunch of other things how do you think about saying no to this, at least for the time being, and then

David Fallarme: I'm working actually on a post on this, so you're going to get the early draft feedback. I think there's a couple of variables you need to balance. One, does it strategically align with the company? So part of it is understanding the audience. Like, okay, I'm going to, I have a best practice playbook on how to do YouTube, but does my audience like learn through YouTube?

Is that something? So part of it is strategic audience alignment. The other is what's the time horizon that you're dealing with. Sometimes I need to grow like this quarter. And so I'm not going to invest necessarily in SEO and I'm going to invest in paid social as an example. But if the time horizon is, yeah, you know, we're good for a while.

And we're thinking more about next year and maybe SEO is like the right thing to do. Maybe it's a podcast. So time horizon is another one. And the other is internal skills, your team's capability. If you have somebody who's extremely good at TikTok and that happens to align with those other two things, then why would you just not invest in that and like ride that wave?

So I think it's a mix of those things, the strategic alignment and the time horizon. And then the internal skills and resources that you have, those are some things that I would do. And also you want to think about what current traction you already have in some of the channels. Because you might find a channel that could make sense, but you're already getting traction on a newsletter, as an example.

Maybe you just want to double down on that, focus on that, as opposed to having three or four things you're juggling and all of a sudden just spreading yourself too thin.

Vikash: Yeah. Yeah. I think I think I can speak for most marketers. I think most of us end up saying yes to a bunch of things and

David Fallarme: Oh yeah, dude.

Oh my god. Yes. It's everybody has to go through this. And then, like, I mean, I definitely did that for a very long time and then everybody reaches a point where you burn yourself out and it's like you did it to yourself. Like, you don't have anybody to blame but yourself. You're like, why am I working so hard?

And then you're not proud of a lot of the stuff that you're doing because you're doing so many things you can't focus. So I think I'm not even sure that what I'm saying is going to help a lot of the folks listening because you just have to experience it yourself emotionally. However. If you are one of those few, we are people who can listen to a podcast and it changes your brain.

You have to start to prioritize those things. And then through the thought process and prioritization and building your own opinion of what needs to be the priority, you can push back to leadership or to whoever is asking you to do more things. So let's say you're focused on the blog and the podcast.

That's your, you really believe those are the things because of the things that I mentioned. But then your CEO says, hey, we should do billboards. Now the previous version of you would have said, yeah, let's try it because the CEO said it. Why not? I would like to see a billboard of our company. You can now push back 'cause you have reasoning to push back 'cause you've done the thought process ahead of time.

And that way you're not, you know, staying up at Friday, 11:00 PM designing a billboard, going back and forth from the agency. And then at the end of the day, the agent, the billboard's not even like up to your standard. So pushing back to say no to a lot of those things comes from you having the thought process built upon what you should be prioritizing.

Vikash: Love it. Love it. Yeah. I, I remember seeing one of your LinkedIn posts. I think you mentioned why marketing owning a revenue number is a mistake. Can you expand on that? And also, when do you think? It might work. I

David Fallarme: let's play it out. Okay. Marketing. This is in the context of a B2B SaaS company where there's a sales team involved. If you just play this out, what happens is, okay, marketing now has a revenue target. So essentially they're a sales team, which means they're going to have the same dynamics of a sales function.

If they really want to try to hit that target, which means that if you're behind on your revenue target for the month or the quarter, If you are really believing that is your target and that's how you're incentivized and your comp plan, you know, like 30%, 40 percent of your revenue of your salary means you have to hit the target.

You're going to focus on a lot of short term tactics to hit that target. If you're behind, you're going to invest in everybody's favorite branded SEM, which I think is the biggest scam in all of technology. But that's a separate, that's probably a separate podcast. You're going to invest in that. You're going to invest in paid social.

You're going to do crazy aggressive plays on getting webinars, signups, and eBooks, like a lot of short term tactics because you're trying to hit that revenue target. Is that the, is that the right thing to do for that quarter for that month, then yeah, maybe, maybe it is because you're gonna hit your revenue target, but you're handicapping and you're preventing yourself from achieving your revenue goals next month, the quarter next year after that, because you're not investing in long term messaging, you're not investing in audience growth because you're not incentivized to, if you are really following through on revenue as a target for marketing.

So that's why I think it forces you into a lot of short term tactics. That prevent marketing from fulfilling its objective of growing the audience and educating buyers who are not in market. That's, I think, the first problem. The second problem is just straight up fairness, which is If you want to give somebody a goal, they should be able to control the inputs to that goal.

So it's like me saying, Hey, I want you to lose 10 pounds, but you can't go to the gym and you can only eat these certain foods that I tell you what to do. Like you probably could do it, but it's gonna be extremely hard. This is not fair. So I think it's important that if you're going to give marketing a sales goal.

Then you kind of have to give them control over the sales team because you could give the best, most perfect leads in the world. But if the sales team, let's say they're operating in good faith, but for whatever reason, their VP of sales left and now they have to onboard new VP of sales or the SDR team, missed their

hiring plan. The, there's going to be a huge hole in the sales process that was out of your control. So there's just a fairness gap there where I think it can work is either marketing has control of the sales team. And I've seen that, but it's very rare. Like the CRO is a marketer first and a salesperson second.

So I've seen that work. It's just very rare. And the second case where it is not a sales led motion, not necessarily a marketing led motion, but a PLG self serve motion where the marketing team essentially is a hybrid growth slash product team where they can influence activation rates, they have some control over pricing.

And so they have control over things that would actually lead to revenue. So in those cases, it could work but in a lot of cases, that's not happening. That's why I really caution against it.

a quick example of what that looks like, right? So I used to work in gaming. And in gaming, you could probably put a revenue target on marketing slash growth. Because you're in charge of acquisition. It's usually through performance marketing paid. Once you get them in the game, if the growth team, if the acquisition team, has control over the levers of activation and monetization, Because you see that typically within one day or two days, like, so when somebody gets in a game, you have almost minute by minute stats of what they're doing in the game.

So you could tweak those and you can have a very short feedback loop, which allows a marketing team to have a revenue target that is under their control. It gets a bit tricky with sales, especially like the more enterprise you go, because the sales cycle is so long. And so, you know, what are you going to do?

Can a goal marketing against something and you don't know whether it worked until nine months later? It just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah. 

Vikash: Yeah. I understand. Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. Cool. I, I wanna talk a little bit about the q4 pipeline targets, that sort of stuff, because I'm sure it's top of mind for. Pretty much every single sales and marketing folks at the moment. Right.

David Fallarme: It depends when this episode drops, but yes.

Vikash: okay, we have to but we'll make it an evergreen one. We can always repurpose it for the next year. But yeah, so,

David Fallarme: my answer actually doesn't change. So I'm just giving a hard time, but my answer doesn't change.

Vikash: I would like to understand a little bit around like what you've seen work and because you've worked at different scales, right? Both at early stage startup, really big ones like HubSpot and, and the likes. What do you think are some of the things that work for each of these stages?

David Fallarme: Yeah, it's, I'm going to give you an unsatisfying answer, but I will give you some practical things out of this. One of the mindsets I think is important to realize for most companies, it's very hard to influence same quarter revenue. And so in most cases, especially if you're partway through the quarter, you should really focus on hitting the next quarter.

So Jeff Bezos has a quote on this that I like, which is like, this quarter's performance, the way I influence it happened three quarters ago. Because a lot of the things in motion now are the result of your actions in the past. So as a marketer, one very crude heuristic I like to use is like, this month's MQLs are next month's SQLs. You know, and next month's SQLs are like the following month's closed one. So if you just follow that and you can adjust that based on your own sales cycle, like you'll realize that it's actually very hard to create net new demand in the same quarter. So in many cases, your effort is better spent trying to tee up the next period, whether that's month or quarter or however long your sales cycle is.

And we saw that HubSpot all the time. Like when I first joined and the team that I was in was behind on our targets, like there's actually not, I tried everything. And you can't make somebody who doesn't want to buy something, buy something. There's only so many people who are in market. It's like you're saying we're a restaurant.

And if people aren't hungry, they're just not going to go into your restaurant. You know what I mean? Like, you're better off making more people aware of your restaurant so that the next time people walk into it. So that's my long, unsatisfying answer, like I said. But the more practical thing is there's a few things you could do if you're really under the gun.

And I alluded to the solution from my answer just now, which is focus on people who are in market, who are already in buying mode, and are already considering the category. That's what you should focus on and not necessarily do, like, big Long thought leadership stuff. So how can you make the demo if talking about B2B SaaS, how can you make the demo funnel as smooth as possible and reduce the leakage?

So I'm a big fan of like meeting bookers, schedulers, like Revenue Hero, Chili Piper HubSpot, whatever you can do to plug that gap between I filled in a form and now I'm on the reps calendar. That's always going to help. And you can make that work even more by maximizing the amount of available meeting times.

So sometimes sales teams will be based in a certain geo. And, you know, nobody wants to take a late night call or whatever, but depending on how desperate you are to close in quarter revenue, just maximize the amount of meeting times available to prospects and figure out later who's going to take a 4 a.

m. call or that 10 p. m. call. Like, depends how badly you want the revenue, right? Because there's people all over the world that could be wanting your solution. And the other thing is, again, in market buyers already in buying mode, comparing in the category optimizer pages. Pricing page is always some lift you could do there.

There's always some question that you're not answering. Create a page that's like, why should I choose you versus the alternatives? That's another one that's typically under optimized. Those two things are probably the highest that you could do. Previously, I would have said target like branded searches.

I'm not so sure, sorry, non, non branded searches for your category or competitor keywords. If you're not already doing that, that typically takes longer than you'd expect because the copywriting. Ad copy, all that kind of testing takes like a few weeks to a month, at least in my experience. Maybe I'm just like bad at writing copy that sounds like it should work quickly, but it rarely does, but that's another thing you could pull.

But I would focus on meeting Booker, Bofu pages, and then anything else you could do out off, off your website, G2 reviews Google high intent searches. That should be your third tier. I think

Vikash: Yeah, I love that. Especially the point where you talked about the nuance of if you're not doing the non branded keywords PPC already, it's probably going to take some time. I think Dev Basu from Powered by Search also recently tweeted about it. Right? Like it's usually. People view PPC as a quick win, but there's just so many other things that goes into it right?

I, I agree with that.

David Fallarme: easy to waste money on PPC.

Vikash: true. Yeah.

David Fallarme: Yeah, I think Google actually makes it easy to waste money on PPC. If you think about how they're incentivized, it's like, yeah, just, you know, for a 5, 000 here and just see what happens. It's like what performance max, or even you got to take my money and spend it how you think is best.

And then it's like, yeah, yeah. Same thing with Facebook. It's very easy to waste money. So you need to make sure that it's aligned with what you're trying to do. One thing I will say as well is I'm just talking about the marketing side. There's a lot of stuff that you could do on the sales side. Closed lost people who, you know, just dropped off the funnel.

I'm going to leave that to an exercise for the reader, just because we're talking about marketing stuff and your sales team should be on top of that anyway.

Vikash: Cool. Amazing. Based on the conversation that we've had so far, like, I think I know. What you're going to say for this, but I'm still going to ask anyway. If, if you had 10 K new budget allocated to you all of a sudden from your CEO or whoever, right. Where would you allocate it ?

David Fallarme: yeah, you know what I'm gonna say. This thing, you, it has to be aligned with everything that you said, right? 10k might not be enough, 10k might be too much, and it's very possible that you could give that 10k back. So you need, to give you a good answer, you really need a bit more constraints around this question, like how far are you in your goals?

Do you want to save that 10k for the next quarter? The answer I'll give you is Invest in something like add investment to something that's already working, or if that 10k is enough and nobody's going to notice and like run some experiment, don't tell anybody and design a good experiment, of course, and then tell people afterwards.

So that's how I think about it. Add it to something that's already working or run some experiment that is like cool and weird and quirky and you're going to it's fun for you to do and you'll learn something. Once you execute it, and then tell people about it. I think that's how I would think about it

Vikash: I think the in, in scenarios where I've heard of this, right. Most of the times it's mostly because they are under, under crunch, they don't have enough pipeline and they're like, okay, Hey, maybe let's just put in more money. Maybe it's the budget. Right. Maybe if we can put money, we might get more pipeline and maybe hit our targets for the quarter.

Right. 

That's usually when. This sort of thing comes up from what I've heard, so I was curious around what you've seen around this.

David Fallarme: So if the situation is I have 10k and I'm behind on pipeline and I don't know, I have two months, that 10k might be enough, might be not enough, depending on a lot of things, right? But it goes back to what I said in my previous answer, which is maybe you should be focusing on next quarter, not this quarter, because there's only so much you could do.

And the highest value things you could be doing might not require budget. Optimize the demo flow, add a pricing page. Or improve your pricing page, add pages that are missing. That might cost like 2k because you just need a bunch of copywriters. So, I think a trap would be, let's throw in a branded search. This is, this is what people end up doing. Let's like pay some sponsorship thing. And then like, okay, like, but for sponsorships, I don't want to go down too much of a wormhole. Like typically one time is not going to do anything. You need repeated exposure and frequency for it to matter. So yeah, I'd just be, I've done a lot of mistakes where I just wasted money and donated this money to the Zuckerberg fund. That's what everybody does, right? Oh, I have extra budget or I don't have to do it. Let me just run some retargeting ads or paid social. Yeah. Good luck. I mean, I could be wrong, but for me it's never worked that way and I'm better off focusing on the next quarter.

Vikash: Yeah, I love it. That's it from my end. I do want to have a quick round before I let you go. In your opinion, based on what you've seen so far what's a tactic or channel that you're seeing work really well, but not a lot of people aren't using, using it properly, or they don't know about it.

David Fallarme: I think in marketing today, A lot of people, you can thank Chris Walker for this, which I demand creation, right? Dark social. So a lot of us are focused on this kind of top of funnel stuff or however you want to call it. Right. It's all the same thing. Awareness building, audience growth. I think that is a good mindset that the marketing industry is, is that there's pendulum is swinging in that direction.

That's good. However, what I've seen as a fractional person, and I get to peek into a lot of different startups, like people just ignore the website. As a result, they're so focused on demand creation that they don't optimize their website. Like they're missing comparison pages. They're missing pages that answer questions of people who have high intent.

Like I said, pricing page, like just add more information to that. You typically see a lift. Don't neglect people who are already in market shopping in the category, comparing your alternatives. Make sure your website answers the questions that those people have. Typically you're missing comparison pages or even like a clear narrative about how you're different.

So the tactic that I'm advocating is look at your website, map that against the questions that people have who are high intent and just make sure you have answers to all of their questions. That's going to net you faster results than coming up with a really good dark social every company is now a media company kind of plan.

Vikash: Got it. Got it. Who are some of your favorite marketers that you think our listeners should go follow?

David Fallarme: There's this blogger called Dave Kellogg He's a CMO and CEO and I just love his stuff. I wish I could matrix jack his knowledge into my brain

So definitely follow him. I think if you follow me on LinkedIn, you know, I'm always about Marketing is not just marketing It's not just about like understanding channel dynamics and all this kind of stuff.

It's a lot about internal company, organizational skills and financial literacy. So Dave Kellogg is a great example of that. Like the way he talks about marketing is very scientific, very quantifiable in a way that the CEO, COO, and a CFO would understand. I don't think enough marketers think of marketing and growth in this way.

So it's a very good idea to follow what he does and absorb some of his thought pattern into your thinking.

Vikash: yeah i'm i've been following his blog for a while now, so totally agree with you.

David Fallarme: So good.

Vikash: Cool. My last question where can people find and connect with you?

David Fallarme: LinkedIn. Just, I'm on there. Add me. I respond to DMs. So hit me up.

Vikash: Amazing. Are you on twitter by any chance or x

David Fallarme: I mean, I am. I'm

passive. 

Vikash: yeah, I don't see a lot of marketers. I feel like marketing Twitter is now like dead. Like I don't see that much engagement

David Fallarme: Yeah. Or it's just like spammy people who don't know what they're doing. I'm sorry if you're listening to this and that's one of you. Yeah, LinkedIn, I've been, yeah, LinkedIn is better for a lot of those things. It's, Twitter's X is good if you want to like yell at people and have arguments. I don't know.

Everybody's on their best behavior because it's your real name and your real company. I'm sure that's part of it.

Vikash: Could be. Yeah. Awesome. Cool. Thanks a lot, David. I really appreciate it. 

David Fallarme: Enjoyed the chat. Thanks for having me.